AndersonWhitt
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Filling out my status. (Photo by Ted Van Pelt.)
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Post by AndersonWhitt on Oct 17, 2018 16:05:14 GMT -5
As it turns out I'm going in a completely different direction, mainly because I remember a blog from nascarman a while back that said Ganassi had serious interest in Johnson. So without further ado:
What if Jeff Gordon Hadn’t Discovered Jimmie Johnson? Jimmie Johnson is one of the greatest drivers of all-time. But in 2001, he was only a relatively unknown Busch series driver who had as many wins as he had terrifying crashes in the series. But after racing against him, Jeff Gordon saw potential in the young driver and convinced Rick Hendrick to put him in his new fourth cup car. The rest his history. But what if Hendrick had decided that he didn’t see enough potential in Johnson to hire him?
In this universe, Hendrick still expands to four teams in 2002, but decides to take a chance on a different young driver in the “next Jeff Gordon” himself. Casey Atwood was unceremoniously released from Ray Evernham’s new team after only one season, with poor work ethic and character issues cited as major reasons for his release, not to mention his subpar performance. But Atwood still has untapped potential as a driver, and nobody believes they can turn him around mentally like Hendrick. He makes sure that Atwood knows this could be his last opportunity to redeem himself, and is very lucky he has that chance at all. Meanwhile, Johnson spends another year in the Busch series, where he has a decent season, at least decent enough to impress one cup owner who has had his eye on Johnson for several years: Chip Ganassi.
Ever since the death of Kenny Irwin, Jr., Ganassi has been looking for a permanent replacement in what is now the #41 car. Jason Leffler and Jimmy Spencer each only lasted one season, but in Johnson, Ganassi sees long-term potential, which is why he signs him to drive the #41 Target car in 2003, where he’ll join teammates Sterling Marlin and fellow rookie Casey Mears (who ends up in the #42 instead). But Johnson doesn’t even have to wait until 2003 to make noise in cup, as he’s called on to replace Marlin following his injury at Kansas in ’02. Johnson stuns the NASCAR world by winning in only his second career start at Charlotte and immediately puts his name on the map as one of the sport’s future stars.
Johnson continues to show signs of brilliance during his first full season in ’03 as he finishes just outside the top ten in points, blowing away Greg Biffle to win Rookie of the Year honors. He then takes the next step in ’04 and becomes a legitimate championship contender during the inaugural Chase, going on a tear in the final few months of the season to finish third in points behind only Kurt Busch and champion Jeff Gordon, who without Johnson in the Hendrick fold is able to be the primary focus of the team down the home stretch and win his fifth title, which he dedicates to the fallen members of the team that were tragically killed in the Martinsville plane crash that October.
Following his second top five points finish in as many years in 2005 (Tony Stewart still wins that championship handily), Johnson becomes a trendy preseason pick to win it all in ’06. But instead, Ganassi struggles mightily and Johnson doesn’t even make the Chase, while Matt Kenseth picks up his second title and at this point has most people convinced that he is the best driver of his generation. But Ganassi will not stand to be down for long. Since they have a star driver they need to keep happy, Chip makes major changes to keep the team competing at a high level. Darian Grubb, who was previously with Hendrick, is brought on as Johnson’s new crew chief, while both his teammates are replaced, with rookies Reed Sorenson and David Stremme taking over for Sterling Marlin and Casey Mears. Johnson and Grubb gel instantly, and Ganassi as a whole, thanks in part to Johnson, is quick to adapt to the Car of Tomorrow. Johnson easily makes the Chase, while Sorenson and Stremme both show flashes of potential. But nobody has anything for Hendrick in ‘07, as new addition Mark Martin has a career resurgence and wins multiple races (without Johnson there, Hendrick doesn’t hire his close friend Mears, who instead ends up at the soon to be defunct Ginn Racing), finishing second in points only behind Gordon, who wins his sixth and further cements himself as one of the greatest of all-time. Hendrick’s other two drivers Kyle Busch and Casey Atwood both grab wins during the season and make the Chase as well.
In 2008, the major storyline at the start of the season is whether or not Gordon can etch himself into history as a 7-time champion alongside Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt. But that narrative doesn’t even last a month before Gordon crashes hard into an unprotected wall in the season’s third race at Las Vegas, severely altering his season. He’d go winless in 2008 and barely make the Chase, but the same can’t be said for his young teammate Casey Atwood, who would enjoy a career year and become Hendrick’s primary focus during the Chase, where he’d narrowly miss out on the championship to Johnson. In his second year with Grubb and with Gordon, as well as Tony Stewart and Matt Kenseth having down years, Johnson was able to take advantage to win it all for the first time. Johnson’s teammate Reed Sorenson also has a solid breakout season in 2008, grabbing his first career win at his home track in Atlanta and making the Chase.
And then comes 2009. Gordon has had a whole year to heal from his back injuries suffered at Las Vegas, Atwood is coming off his breakout campaign, Martin is also due for a bounceback season after a disappointing 2008, and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. now has a year under his belt with the team (yes, Kyle Busch still goes to Gibbs after 2007). This could be the best we’ve ever seen Hendrick Motorsports, and that should be a scary sight for the rest of the field.
It doesn’t quite turn out that way. Junior still goes into his slump, and even Hendrick can’t keep Atwood in control as he goes into a post-championship loss meltdown that results in several temper tantrums throughout the year, culminating in Gordon and Martin having to separate him from ex-teammate Kyle Busch on pit road at Martinsville. On the subject of Gordon and Martin, they both have good years, finishing second and third in points, respectively, behind Johnson, who wins his second in a row and proves that he can beat Gordon at the top of his game. The rivalry between Johnson and the driver who had once wanted him as his teammate is officially on.
But then the unthinkable happens: the ENTIRE HENDRICK TEAM goes winless in 2010 while Ganassi teammates Johnson, Sorenson, and offseason free agent acquisition Jamie McMurray all find victory lane, combining to win eleven of the 36 races (eight of them by Johnson, who fights off Joe Gibbs Racing’s Denny Hamlin and Earnhardt-Childress Racing’s Kevin Harvick to win his third straight). This calls for some major changes in the Hendrick camp. First and foremost, Atwood, after a second consecutive season marred by controversy and poor performance, is fired and replaced with Kasey Kahne. Atwood lands on his feet… with Phoenix Racing. The crew chiefs around the rest of the team also swap, with Alan Gustafson replacing Steve Letarte atop the #24 pit box.
During the regular season, the changes don’t do very much help. Kahne is the only Hendrick driver to win, though all the Hendrick drivers besides Martin make the Chase, with Gordon and Junior barely sneaking in. And as the season winds to a close, Johnson appears as the heavy favorite to win four straight. But then suddenly, Gordon catches fire. He wins the first two Chase races out of nowhere, and then wins at Martinsville (after passing Johnson on the final restart) and Texas as well, setting him up for a rematch of the 2009 championship race with Johnson. Nobody can explain Gordon’s sudden uptick in performance, but once his radio picks him up saying “I am not (expletive) losing to him again” before the final restart at Homestead with ten laps to go and he and Johnson running 1-2, it all becomes clear. Gordon’s “Refuse to Lose” attitude is what has carried him through this Chase run, and he finishes it off by beating Johnson in an epic duel over those final laps to win his record-tying seventh championship on a tiebreaker: five wins to Johnson’s four.
Gordon sticks around for a few more years after that, but he’s never a serious contender anymore outside of a resurgent 2014 season where he shows flashes of his former self. But with 7 championships and over 100 wins in NASCAR's most competitive era, a vast majority of fans believe Gordon to be not only the best driver of the modern era, but the best ever. Johnson on the other hand? His confidence is shaken for a while from losing 2011 to Gordon, but he does win two more championships to give him five total: one in a dominant 2013, and then a 2011 Gordon moment of his own in 2016. That’s looking like it may be his last though, as he’s fallen off a cliff in the few years since and looks to go down in history as only the second best driver of his era, though there is a small contingent of people who believe Johnson was more talented than Gordon, but just didn’t have as good equipment. Dodge is also still around in this universe as Ganassi never switched manufacturers out of desperation. It does cost Brad Keselowski the 2012 title though, as Clint Bowyer pulls off the upset with Keselowski and Johnson cancelling each other out in the Dodge camp and Gordon, with his three extra titles, perhaps isn’t as easily set off to the point where he would intentionally slam Bowyer into the wall at Phoenix.
As far as the future of Ganassi is concerned beyond Johnson, they should still be one of, if not the, top team in NASCAR for years to come, with Reed Sorenson being a Chase contender most years and the potential next generational talent in young Kyle Larson. Hendrick on the other hand has struggled mightily ever since Gordon’s retirement and the subsequent retirement of Dale Earnhardt, Jr., even having to shut down the #48 team due to a lack of sponsorship. Unless young drivers Chase Elliott and William Byron end up being extremely good, his team is in serious trouble.
Meanwhile, Juan Pablo Montoya is retiring from IndyCar at the end of the year after enjoying a twelve year career in which he won 30 races after returning from F1, including the Indianapolis 500 three times, and two championships as well driving for Chip Ganassi. His only regret is that Ganassi never had a NASCAR seat available for him because he would’ve loved to see what he could’ve done there. Very well-written. So Target wins five championships with Jimmie Johnson, in addition to the several they earned in IndyCar. I was surprised to see Reed Sorenson doing this well, although it would match his Busch Series performance. I wouldn't expect Casey Mears to leave after 2005 (he improved a lot at the end of the season), especially since he's friends with Jimmie Johnson, but I guess that would be plausible if Ganassi is going all-out to improve the team's performance. If Mears did stay for 2006, he might go to the #30 with Home123 (as was the plan before McMurray left), with Sorenson taking over the #42, and I would expect him to stay until at least 2008. When he leaves, he could be replaced by Montoya. I also don't think Mark Martin would have driven anywhere full-time until 2009, unless Matt Martin made his decision to stop racing sooner. Did you have any ideas where Jamie McMurray would have driven from 2003-2009? |
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sean
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Post by sean on Oct 17, 2018 17:04:00 GMT -5
I don't really buy the premise to begin with since Jimmie Johnson was a Chevy factory driver. I find the most likely alternative outcome if he doesn't land the Hendrick deal is that he would have been Dale Earnhardt's replacement at his death (as much as it would have most likely pissed Harvick off.) Or at the very least he would have gotten the #30 over Jeff Green the next year. Yes, Jeff and Robby Gordon burned their early-career factory statuses with Ford, but I don't think Jimmie Johnson would have done that.
I agree that it seemed like Mark Martin was not going to race anywhere full-time after 2006 and that wouldn't have changed.
I can't see Hendrick going for Casey Atwood after he struggled in 2001. I think there's a chance the #48 team may never have happened if Johnson hadn't won that race at Chicagoland. Something tells me they would have wanted a veteran with a couple years left while developing somebody else (considering the LaJoie, Dallenbach, Nemechek hires around the same time), so I'm going to guess Bobby Hamilton considering he lost his sponsorship early in 2002, had won and had a hot start to 2001, and made his debut for Hendrick driving the Days of Thunder car. The past couple years aside, Hendrick usually does not go for youth. And the 3 big exceptions in their history (Gordon, Johnson, and Busch) may be the best three drivers of their era. Well on the flip side there is Brian Vickers who never amounted to much.
I don't really see Sorenson becoming a star either but I'd bet on that over Atwood, particularly if he got to ride Johnson's coattails.
If McMurray doesn't win Charlotte 2002, I'm not confident he ever lands a Cup ride. At the time he won that Cup race wasn't he winless in both Busch and trucks? He would probably end up being an Allgaier/Keller/Sadler-style perennial winner/never champion in Busch/Nationwide (yeah, I know Allgaier could do it this year, but I don't think he will.)
"Matt Kenseth picks up his second title and at this point has most people convinced that he is the best driver of his generation."
Umm, he's one year younger than Gordon and Stewart. Gordon and Stewart would be considered the best drivers of their generation at this point, and eventually Johnson if he wins five titles.
As for Montoya's return to IndyCar, something tells me it would have happened a few years later than 2007, and not until after the merger in 2008. I don't think he would have gone full-time IRL before Champ Car and IndyCar reunited. Without the NASCAR deal in his pocket (which was probably nearly paying as much as most F1 rides he would have gotten at that time, particularly since Montoya taking his teammate Raikkonen out at the 2006 USGP basically made his future F1 career in potentially winning cars unviable) I expect he would have taken some bad F1 rides for another year or two, and switched sometime in the 2008-09 period, either replacing Hornish at Penske (instead of Briscoe) or Wheldon at Ganassi (instead of Franchitti.) In 2007, neither Penske or Ganassi were available as Castroneves/Hornish and Dixon/Wheldon were under contract, so the best he could do would be replacing Bryan Herta at Andretti (instead of Danica), which wouldn't have been a bad option at that time but not something I really would see him doing. I agree he would have gone to IndyCar sooner, but I don't think it would have been immediate.
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Post by diburritomelon9 on Oct 17, 2018 17:09:04 GMT -5
I don't really buy the premise to begin with since Jimmie Johnson was a Chevy factory driver. I find the most likely alternative outcome if he doesn't land the Hendrick deal is that he would have been Dale Earnhardt's replacement at his death (as much as it would have most likely pissed Harvick off.) Or at the very least he would have gotten the #30 over Jeff Green the next year. Yes, Jeff and Robby Gordon burned their early-career factory statuses with Ford, but I don't think Jimmie Johnson would have done that. I agree that it seemed like Mark Martin was not going to race anywhere full-time after 2006 and that wouldn't have changed. I can't see Hendrick going for Casey Atwood after he struggled in 2001. I think there's a chance the #48 team may never have happened if Johnson hadn't won that race at Chicagoland. Something tells me they would have wanted a veteran with a couple years left while developing somebody else (considering the LaJoie, Dallenbach, Nemechek hires around the same time), so I'm going to guess Bobby Hamilton considering he lost his sponsorship early in 2002, had won and had a hot start to 2001, and made his debut for Hendrick driving the Days of Thunder car. The past couple years aside, Hendrick usually does not go for youth. And the 3 big exceptions in their history (Gordon, Johnson, and Busch) may be the best three drivers of their era. Well on the flip side there is Brian Vickers who never amounted to much. I don't really see Sorenson becoming a star either but I'd bet on that over Atwood, particularly if he got to ride Johnson's coattails. If McMurray doesn't win Charlotte 2002, I'm not confident he ever lands a Cup ride. At the time he won that Cup race wasn't he winless in both Busch and trucks? He would probably end up being an Allgaier/Keller/Sadler-style perennial winner/never champion in Busch/Nationwide (yeah, I know Allgaier could do it this year, but I don't think he will.) "Matt Kenseth picks up his second title and at this point has most people convinced that he is the best driver of his generation." Umm, he's one year younger than Gordon and Stewart. Gordon and Stewart would be considered the best drivers of their generation at this point, and eventually Johnson if he wins five titles. As for Montoya's return to IndyCar, something tells me it would have happened a few years later than 2007, and not until after the merger in 2008. I don't think he would have gone full-time IRL before Champ Car and IndyCar reunited. Without the NASCAR deal in his pocket (which was probably nearly paying as much as most F1 rides he would have gotten at that time, particularly since Montoya taking his teammate Raikkonen out at the 2006 USGP basically made his future F1 career in potentially winning cars unviable) I expect he would have taken some bad F1 rides for another year or two, and switched sometime in the 2008-09 period, either replacing Hornish at Penske (instead of Briscoe) or Wheldon at Ganassi (instead of Franchitti.) In 2007, neither Penske or Ganassi were available as Castroneves/Hornish and Dixon/Wheldon were under contract, so the best he could do would be replacing Bryan Herta at Andretti (instead of Danica), which wouldn't have been a bad option at that time but not something I really would see him doing. I agree he would have gone to IndyCar sooner, but I don't think it would have been immediate. That would have been cool if Hamilton had a shot in a Hendrick car. |
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sean
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Post by sean on Oct 17, 2018 17:14:13 GMT -5
Yeah, but I remembered wrongly. It was the #33 Petree car that had sponsor issues. Hamilton continued to run the #55 for most of the 2002 season and did very little (which is why I somehow thought he lost his Petree ride due to lack of sponsorship earlier than I thought he did.) Nemechek was the driver who had sponsorship issues, not Hamilton. But I think that's more in the ballpark of what Hendrick would have done without Johnson regardless.
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Post by chevyfan98 on Oct 17, 2018 17:45:05 GMT -5
Bunch of things to address (I've been out most of the day so I haven't had time to reply one-by-one):
- I'm not sold on Johnson staying with Chevy if he doesn't get the Hendrick ride. Gordon was supposed to be lined up with a Ford cup ride but Hendrick/Chevy stole him and he had more success in Busch than Johnson did.
- I realize that Kenseth is closer to the age of Gordon and Stewart, I meant generation just referring to the "super rookie" era of 1999-2006ish, so I guess that would've been between Kenseth and Stewart, who both would've had two titles at the time.
- Martin may not have initially wanted to still be full-time in 2007, but I think if there was an opportunity with Hendrick he probably would have, just like he actually did in 2009.
- Atwood and Sorenson are both guys I think could've been really good under the right circumstances. Obviously for Atwood it was his own doing, but I think Hendrick could've kept him in line for at least a while and gotten the most out of him. And Sorenson would've been much better and stayed in cup if (a) Ganassi hadn't been at its nadir when he was there and (b) if he'd had a star veteran teammate like Johnson to lean on.
- For McMurray, yeah... don't know how to explain that. I tried to leave as few plotholes as possible and just inserted drivers into the open rides by either what actually happened or what I think would make the most sense, but you're right that he probably doesn't go to cup if he doesn't win that Charlotte race and that wouldn't explain him at Ganassi years later.
Anyway this is all complete speculation just for fun, so who knows the likelihood that any of this would've happened, I just think its fascinating to imagine what the possibilities could've been if you change one thing in history. I'll post the next one I've been working on probably sometime next week, and that'll be what if Kyle Busch had been fired after 2011.
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murb
Associate Moderator 
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Post by murb on Oct 18, 2018 16:14:09 GMT -5
Logano had a fairly awful 2011 season and 2012, even with a win, wasn't too much better. I believe with Kurt still at Penske that if Logano were to move, Kenseth would still go to Gibbs and Joey would be struggling to find a ride. He may take a stopgap year somewhere else in 2013 and take over for the retiring Jeff Burton at RCR. Allmendinger, despite flashes of promise at RPM, never showed anything special in 2012 and really was an emergency replacement for the departing Kurt. Maybe he takes the JTG or Finch ride a year early? Or goes back to Indycar assuming he still fails a drug test? Hornish had a poor initial cup series run, but was contending for championships for Penske's Xfinity team at the time. I see nothing major that would change about his plans. Now comes the real confusing part. Kurt never gets fired, so he and Keselowski are teamed up through the switch to Ford and the gen-6. As such, he never goes to Finch or Furniture Row. Finch still folds due to a lack of sponsorship with AJ/Labonte/another free agent. FRR hangs on to Regan Smith for the rest of 2012 and probably 2013 before jettisoning him when Truex becomes available. That, of course, is assuming the technical alliance with RCR gets the team as far in 2013 as it did in real life with Kurt... And finally, Stewart-Hass. Tony did not want to sign Kurt at all, and in this scenario he doesn't have to. With Logano moving into Jeff Burton's vacated RCR ride, Tony is able to keep buddy Ryan Newman in the renumbered 41 and adds Kevin Harvick from RCR in 2014, just like real life. At least, I think. Regardless of who drove the #78 in 2014, it might have done a bit worse without Kurt Busch having driven it, and I'm not sure if they would have gotten Cole Pearn. (Could he have gone somewhere else?) Pearn was an engineer at Furniture Row prior to becoming crew chief, so yes, he still would have been there. |
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AndersonWhitt
Junior Member
Filling out my status. (Photo by Ted Van Pelt.)
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Post by AndersonWhitt on Oct 19, 2018 0:19:53 GMT -5
sean and chevyfan98 : McMurray was signed to the #42 even before he filled in for Marlin. He was even going to drive the #42 in the last few races of 2002, but that was cancelled when Marlin got injured. So I think he would have gotten a ride in Cup pretty soon. If it wasn't for Mears being Johnson's friend, he probably would have gotten the #42 over Mears. (McMurray was signed to the #42 before Mears was signed fkr the #41. I think Ganassi originally wanted Bobby Hamilton for the #41, but Target might have said no.)
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Post by chevyfan98 on Oct 24, 2018 11:21:27 GMT -5
I said the next what-if would be this week, so here it is:
What if Gibbs Had Fired Kyle Busch After 2011?
From a controversy standpoint, 2011 was easily the worst season of Kyle Busch’s career. He was involved in several confrontations and off-track incidents throughout the season that culminated in him intentionally turning truck series championship contender Ron Hornaday into the wall head-on at Texas in the fall, which earned him a one race suspension. His main sponsor Mars/M&Ms also pulled their sponsorship for the remainder of the season as a result. Nobody knows how dangerously close Joe Gibbs was to deciding he’d had enough of Busch’s act, but if it had happened, it most certainly would have changed the course of NASCAR history.
As you may remember, Kyle wasn’t the only Busch on bad terms with his team at the time, and his brother Kurt wasn’t so lucky as he and Penske Racing parted ways following the season, which for him ended with flipping off the first lady and cursing out reporter Jerry Punch in the season finale at Homestead. In actuality, Kurt would end up in the #51 for underfunded Phoenix Racing the following year, but you have to imagine that if Kyle was also available in free agency, things would’ve played out a little differently (leaving out the possibility that Kyle ends up replacing Kurt at Penske, or vice versa, since their respective teams were tired of them). While already forming together a deal to split time in Kyle’s Nationwide series car together and with all the good cup rides taken, the two brothers see a golden opportunity to team up together at start-up BK Racing to drive the #83 and #93 cars. As far as their replacements are concerned, Penske still tabs AJ Allmendinger to drive the #22 in place of Kurt, while Gibbs snags Brian Vickers, who sees a much better opportunity for himself than the one that would have him driving only part-time for Michael Waltrip Racing. Phoenix Racing moves forward with the impressive Landon Cassill after not landing either Busch brother.
A lot of things are about to change moving forward, but we'll start out with what goes on at Joe Gibbs Racing without Kyle. 2012 doesn’t go so well for Gibbs as Hamlin is their only chaser (remember, Kyle Busch missed the 2012 Chase in real life, so Vickers almost certainly wouldn’t have done any better) and despite the addition of Matt Kenseth the following year, things don’t get any better as Hamlin suffers his back injury at Fontana. That makes two years in a row where Gibbs only puts a single car in the Chase, and when Brian Vickers’ health issues pop up again near the end of the 2013 season and David Ragan doesn’t make an adequate long-term replacement, Gibbs decides to make a splash in the free agent market for the second year in a row, snatching Martin Truex, Jr., who became available just around the time that Vickers’ blood clots resurfaced.
Gibbs, and Toyota as a whole, still struggle in 2014, but with the new Chase format, all three drivers easily make it in, but outside of Hamlin backing his way into the final four, they don’t get very far. This makes the third year in a row where Gibbs hasn’t been among the elite teams, and with the team struggling for speed, they decide not to add a fourth car for Carl Edwards, who ends up signing with the rising Furniture Row Racing instead, where he’d replace the retiring Jeff Burton and team up with new crew chief Cole Pearn.
But back to the Busch brothers. In three years thus far with BK Racing, both drivers had yet to make the Chase and had combined for only a single win, by Kyle at Watkins Glen in 2013. Then, the beginning of the 2015 season is a complete disaster as both brothers are sidelined, Kurt because of his suspension for alleged domestic violence and Kyle with his broken legs from the Daytona Xfinity race. Kurt, fed up with spending the last few years in irrelevancy anyway, decides to step away from NASCAR for good at this point and signs a deal to run in IndyCar for Andretti Autosport full-time once he is cleared of any wrongdoing in his legal dispute. Meanwhile, Kyle looks like a completely different driver following his return in 2015. He doesn’t make the miracle comeback to win the title or even make the Chase, but he and new crew chief Eric Phillips (who Kyle handpicks from his truck series team) gel together instantly and Busch is a much more patient driver during this stretch and is noticeably one of the best non-chasers throughout the last few months of the season. It still isn’t enough to save BK Racing from going out of business following the season due to the amount of cars both Busch brothers had wrecked over the years from overdriving, but with fellow Toyota team Michael Waltrip Racing also shutting down, Kyle sees a perfect chance to own the cup team he’s always wanted to have, buying several cars from MWR and keeping BK’s charters to move Kyle Busch Motorsports to the cup series for 2016 and beyond.
KBM’s debut season in cup gets off to a shaky start, but by the end of the year in which Busch makes the Chase for the first time since 2011 (and wins for the first time since 2013), he’s competing up front again on a regular basis and just narrowly misses out on a spot in the final four after Matt Kenseth steals a win in the penultimate race at Phoenix. Jimmie Johnson wins the championship in dramatic fashion as he holds off Kevin Harvick, denying him of his third straight title, following a wreck on the previous restart where the other two title contenders Kenseth and Joey Logano crashed from the lead (which resulted in an all-out brawl between Kenseth, Logano, and multiple Gibbs and Penske pit crews under the red flag).
2017 is easily Kyle’s best season since he was fired from Gibbs as he comes oh-so-close to picking up his first championship, but can’t pass Carl Edwards in the final laps at Homestead as Edwards wins his long-awaited first title (Furniture Row still switches to Toyota and aligns with Gibbs in this universe as the only other option would’ve been having the team owned by the driver he fired as a satellite operation). KBM’s second car also gets a significant upgrade from Regan Smith (who had been there since he was Kurt’s sub at BK Racing in 2015) to Kyle’s protégé Erik Jones.
Gibbs has still never fully recovered from his decision to fire Busch, as his current lineup consists of Hamlin and two young, but unproven drivers in Bubba Wallace and Daniel Suarez (though one of them is likely to be replaced with Carl Edwards next year after Furniture Row shuts down). Truex would be let go into free agency after 2016 (where he'd sign with RCR) following several
mediocre seasons where it seemed like he wasn’t a very good fit with the team, and Kenseth was forced into semi-retirement following a mostly disappointing 2017 season. Gibbs is even starting to lose ground as the #1 Toyota team in the garage, as KBM should be a force for a while with not only Kyle Busch, but one of the most promising development pipelines that includes Jones, Christopher Bell, and Todd Gilliland. Busch still doesn’t have a championship and only has about 30 wins, but he’s become a more polished driver every season and is still in his early 30s, so he’ll have several opportunities to do so in the coming few years.
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Post by JSPorts on Oct 24, 2018 14:38:04 GMT -5
I like that what-if scenario. A few things:
Why doesn't Gibbs still add a 4th team? They added one in real life in 2015, even though they struggled in 2014. Also, does Kenseth no longer have a successful 2013 season?
And then, why wouldn't Kyle have just bought Red Bull Racing himself? In this scenario, I'm assuming Gibbs lets Busch go after the Texas incident. If you remember, BK didn't actually buy Red Bull until the beginning of February 2012. I doubt either Busch brother would've gone all through the offseason without a team to drive for, and Kyle moving his team up to Cup in 2012 by purchasing the old Red Bull operation seems more likely.
Great job, though. I like reading these scenarios.
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Post by chevyfan98 on Oct 24, 2018 15:46:01 GMT -5
I like that what-if scenario. A few things: Why doesn't Gibbs still add a 4th team? They added one in real life in 2015, even though they struggled in 2014. Also, does Kenseth no longer have a successful 2013 season? And then, why wouldn't Kyle have just bought Red Bull Racing himself? In this scenario, I'm assuming Gibbs lets Busch go after the Texas incident. If you remember, BK didn't actually buy Red Bull until the beginning of February 2012. I doubt either Busch brother would've gone all through the offseason without a team to drive for, and Kyle moving his team up to Cup in 2012 by purchasing the old Red Bull operation seems more likely. Great job, though. I like reading these scenarios. Yes, Kenseth would still be just as good in 2013, but he’d be the only Gibbs driver doing anything that year. And Gibbs wouldn’t expand because they would’ve been doing even worse than in real life, remember their fourth car had been rumored since around 2011 or 2012 (whenever the Edwards-to-JGR stuff came up the first time and it didn’t end up happening yet) and if Kyle isn’t there then I don’t think they’d be good enough to consider that. As for KBM, I don’t think Kyle would’ve been ready yet to move them to cup in 2012. You’re right about BK Racing not being announced until late that offseason, but I have to think if they were both fired that same offseason they would’ve teamed up together (Kurt ended up driving for Kyle in Xfinity that year as it was) and the only good seats available (unless I’m missing something) besides the #18 and #22 would’ve been MWR’s #55 (which Martin was already announced for IIRC and I don’t think either of them would’ve taken a part-time ride) or Petty’s #43 (and I doubt he would’ve wanted to put up with their tempers). So that seemed like the most logical option for me to go with, it probably happens earlier in the offseason though. |
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Post by JSPorts on Oct 24, 2018 17:49:47 GMT -5
I like that what-if scenario. A few things: Why doesn't Gibbs still add a 4th team? They added one in real life in 2015, even though they struggled in 2014. Also, does Kenseth no longer have a successful 2013 season? And then, why wouldn't Kyle have just bought Red Bull Racing himself? In this scenario, I'm assuming Gibbs lets Busch go after the Texas incident. If you remember, BK didn't actually buy Red Bull until the beginning of February 2012. I doubt either Busch brother would've gone all through the offseason without a team to drive for, and Kyle moving his team up to Cup in 2012 by purchasing the old Red Bull operation seems more likely. Great job, though. I like reading these scenarios. Yes, Kenseth would still be just as good in 2013, but he’d be the only Gibbs driver doing anything that year. And Gibbs wouldn’t expand because they would’ve been doing even worse than in real life, remember their fourth car had been rumored since around 2011 or 2012 (whenever the Edwards-to-JGR stuff came up the first time and it didn’t end up happening yet) and if Kyle isn’t there then I don’t think they’d be good enough to consider that. As for KBM, I don’t think Kyle would’ve been ready yet to move them to cup in 2012. You’re right about BK Racing not being announced until late that offseason, but I have to think if they were both fired that same offseason they would’ve teamed up together (Kurt ended up driving for Kyle in Xfinity that year as it was) and the only good seats available (unless I’m missing something) besides the #18 and #22 would’ve been MWR’s #55 (which Martin was already announced for IIRC and I don’t think either of them would’ve taken a part-time ride) or Petty’s #43 (and I doubt he would’ve wanted to put up with their tempers). So that seemed like the most logical option for me to go with, it probably happens earlier in the offseason though. Yeah, you're right about the available rides. Martin was announced at TMS right before Kyle's meltdown. Another possibility was the Andretti team that was rumored to come to Cup around that time with Dodge. |
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Post by JSPorts on Oct 24, 2018 17:50:23 GMT -5
Ok, here goes. This is going to be a long one. No doubt, many of you will disagree with some or most of this, but it's nice to think things could be better.
What if Dale Earnhardt never died?
This is one that gets talked about a lot, and I feel as though it’s a very polarizing what-if. Some fans believe Earnhardt would’ve won another championship, raced for many more years and moved into the top-3 winningest drivers of all time. Others think he never would’ve won again or been competitive, and would’ve been gone within another year or two.
I think the truth is somewhere in between. I’ll walk through year-by-year, and then take a look at what NASCAR would be today had Earnhardt lived.
Before 2001: after the deaths of Tony Roper & Adam Petty in 2000, NASCAR makes a big change. It requires all drivers to wear full-face helmets and the HANS device. Dale Earnhardt is a staunch opponent of this, but he can’t change Bill France, Jr.’s mind, and he decides to go along with it.
2001: Earnhardt suffers minor injuries in a last-lap crash at the 2001 Daytona 500. He goes on to win 3 races that season and finish 3rd in points. Jeff Gordon dominates the season and wins the championship. Kurt Busch wins rookie of the year. Kevin Harvick makes 9 attempts in the 3rd RCR car, #30, but only qualifies for 7 races. He shines in his limited starts, though, even winning in his 3rd career start as a part-time driver at Chicagoland. Steve Park is uninjured in a crash in the Busch Series at Darlington due to the newly-mandated rules regarding driver saftey.
2002: Earnhardt wins twice and finishes 5th in the final standings. RCR adds a 3rd car full-time for Kevin Harvick, who wins rookie of the year after a tight battle with Ryan Newman & Jimmie Johnson. Sterling Marlin leads the points most of the year, but is injured in a crash at Kansas and Tony Stewart goes on to capture his first championship.
2003: Earnhardt announces before the season that he will retire when his contract runs out at the end of ’03. He wins once that season, at Talladega, and finishes 10th in the points. There is a season-long battle for the championship between Matt Kenseth and Dale Earnhardt, Jr., which is eventually won by the younger Earnhardt in his father’s final season. Dale, Sr. retires with 82 career victories, putting him (at the time) 6th on the all-time wins list.
2004: The Chase format is never implemented, as the compelling championship battle from 2003, which goes down to the last race, has fans on the edges of their seats all season long. The championship battle is a 3-way race between Dale Earnhardt, Jr., Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. Earnhardt, Jr. eventually comes out on top. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. is replaced in the #3 car by rookie Johnny Sauter, who has little success and is eventually replaced by Jeff Burton mid-season after Burton can’t find sponsorship at Roush.
2005: Dale, Jr. keeps Tony Eury, Sr. as his crew chief. He has success, but not like he did in 2003 and 2004. Tony Stewart and Jimmie Johnson battle for the championship, and Stewart eventually comes out on top, winning his second Cup. Robby Gordon is replaced in the RCR #31 by Dave Blaney. Kevin Harvick moves to the #07 team with new sponsor Jack Daniel’s.
2006: DEI driver Michael Waltrip leaves to start his own team, Michael Waltrip Racing, with support from Chevrolet and DEI/ECR. He runs a 1-car operation his first year, driving the #55 NAPA Chevrolet. Replacing Waltrip in the #15 is rookie Martin Truex, Jr., moving up from the Busch Series after winning the last two championships there. Tony Eury, Jr. serves as his crew chief. Rookie Clint Bowyer also moves into the RCR #31 car, but loses the rookie of the year battle to Truex, who narrowly beats Denny Hamlin for the honor. Jimmie Johnson captures his first championship in ’06, after beating out Matt Kenseth.
2007: Because of the safety changes after 2000, NASCAR doesn’t begin development on a new car. There are small changes to the existing car each year, to make them more like the street models, but there is no overhaul or COT. Steve Park is replaced at DEI by rookie Paul Menard in the #1 car. The financial crisis hits NASCAR, but the sport’s thriving popularity keeps it afloat. Evernham, Petty, Roush & Waltrip are never forced to bring on investors. Rob Kauffman never enters NASCAR as a result. Additionally, Ginn Racing never folds. Toyota still joins and struggles in its first year, but because MWR is a Chevrolet team, they pair up with a new team spearheaded by George Gillett and the Fenway Sports Group, called Gillett Fenway Racing. This team struggles out of the gate, and goes out of business after 2007. Toyota eventually replaces them with JGR for 2008. The championship battle is one for the ages, with Jeff Gordon & Jimmie Johnson going toe-to-toe all season long. Johnson eventually comes out on top, winning his second title in a row.
2008: After an influx of new teams with the arrival of Toyota in 2007, NASCAR expands field sizes to 45 cars. Kyle Busch remains at Hendrick Motorsports in the #5 car. Casey Mears stays in the #25. Joe Gibbs gives J.J. Yeley one more season in the #18, but dumps him mid-season after continued struggles. He is replaced by a rotating panel of drivers, mainly Ken Schrader, Terry Labonte & Joey Logano. M&M’s never moves over to JGR because Kyle isn’t there, so Yates Racing stays in business. Bill Davis Racing keeps Caterpillar, as well, because Goodwrench is still at RCR sponsoring Burton in the #3, which means the Pennzoil sponsorship moves over from Menard in the #1 (where they were doing a partial season) to the #31 car of Bowyer. Mark Martin splits the Ginn Racing #01 with Regan Smith once again, and Sam Hornish, Jr. wins rookie of the year for Penske. Dale Jarrett retires after 5 races, and is replaced by Michael McDowell. This year’s championship battle is a 3-way race between Jimmie Johnson, Carl Edwards & Dale Earnhardt, Jr. Johnson wins his third title in a row.
2009: Mark Martin heads to Hendrick’s #25 car, replacing Casey Mears. Mears goes to the RCR #31, and Clint Bowyer moves to the #33 car with new sponsor Cheerios. Petty Enterprises never merges with Evernham Motorsports, and DEI never merges with Ganassi. Regan Smith gets the #01 full-time (but is not eligible for rookie of the year, because he ran over 7 races in 2007 and 2008.) Paul Menard moves to Yates Racing, and Aric Almirola replaces him in the DEI #1 car. Bobby Labonte continues with Petty, and Reed Sorenson continues with Ganassi. A.J. Allmendinger remains with Evernham in the #10 car for 2009. Chad McCumbee replaces Kyle Petty in the #45 after Petty’s retirement, but struggles greatly. Joe Gibbs driver Joey Logano replaces Tony Stewart in the #20, and Gibbs takes a chance on David Gilliland to drive the #18 Interstate Batteries / Farm Bureau Insurance Toyota. Gilliland struggles. Logano wins rookie of the year. Tony Stewart aligns with his friend Dale Earnhardt & DEI rather than HMS to start his new team. Rather than partnering with Gene Haas (who was aligned with HMS), Stewart buys into Ginn Racing, forming Stewart-Ginn Racing. Johnny Sauter re-joins Haas in the #70 car. Regan Smith moves to Furniture Row. Jimmie Johnson wins his fourth consecutive championship by a large margin.
2010: DEI opens a fourth team for rookie Brad Keselowski, the #81 car. He wins rookie of the year. Kevin Harvick switches back to the #30 after Jack Daniel’s pulls their sponsorship. Gilliland remains in the #18 for another year, despite limited results. Michael Waltrip will retire at the conclusion of 2010. Casey Mears moves to the Penske #12. Jamie McMurray leaves Roush and replaces Chad McCumbee in the #45 car. Kevin Harvick doesn’t win the most races, but he is so consistent that he wins the championship over Jimmie Johnson. It’s Harvick’s first title.
2011: Michael Waltrip’s retirement prompts him to move 19-year-old Ryan Truex into the #55 car. He will face intense competition for rookie of the year, as 20-year-old Matt DiBenedetto takes over the #18 from David Gilliland. Rookie Justin Allgaier also takes over the Penske #12 from Mears. Allgaier ends up getting the award. Gilliland moves to Yates Racing, replacing Travis Kvapil. Elliott Sadler is replaced in the Evernham #19 by Marcos Ambrose, as Bobby Labonte takes Ambrose’s JTG ride. Labonte is replaced by A.J. Allmendinger at Petty, and Allmendinger’s #10 team shuts down as the Valvoline sponsorship follows him to RPM. Sadler drives for KHI in the Nationwide Series, winning the title over Ricky Stenhouse & Sam Hornish and looking to move back to Cup for 2012. The Wood Brothers, who never scaled back to part-time, hire Roush prospect Trevor Bayne to drive the full season for them, and he is disappointing after a Daytona 500 victory. He is replaced for a short time by Ricky Stenhouse while he recovers from an illness. Kyle Busch is fired from Hendrick Motorsports with three races remaining in the season after an incident with Ron Hornaday, Jr. in the truck race at Texas. Kurt Busch is also fired from Penske following his Homestead incident. Carl Edwards top-10s the field to death, winning his first Cup championship.
2012: A.J. Allmendinger is hired as Kurt Busch’s replacement at Penske, but fails a July drug test, and is subsequently replaced by Sam Hornish, Jr. Allmendinger is replaced at Petty by Casey Mears. Cole Whitt takes over the #22 from Dave Blaney. Kyle Busch is replaced by Elliott Sadler at Hendrick, and Mark Martin remains with the team in a part-time capacity, sharing the #25 car with a number of developmental drivers, none of whom impress. David Reutimann remains with MWR in the #00 car. Clint Bowyer leaves RCR, joining MWR in the #51. Bowyer is replaced by Paul Menard, whose vacated seat at Yates Racing goes to rookie Stephen Leicht. Leicht wins rookie of the year. David Ragan remains in the #6 AAA car after winning Daytona in 2011. Kyle Busch moves his own team, Kyle Busch Motorsports, to the Cup Series. Busch drives the #54 Monster Energy Toyota. The team has limited success; Kyle wins at Richmond in the spring, but has no other wins. Red Bull Racing merges with Andretti Autosport, forming Andretti-Red Bull Racing, which fields a Toyota for Brian Vickers and one for Kurt Busch. This is one of the greatest championship battles in history, as Dale Earnhardt, Jr., Jimmie Johnson, Brad Keselowski, Denny Hamlin, Kevin Harvick & Martin Truex, Jr. all fight for the title. Keselowski ends up winning it.
2013: NASCAR again bumps field sizes up, this time to 47. They have to add pit stalls at some tracks. Because the recession doesn’t hit NASCAR as hard as it did in real life, Matt Kenseth never loses his Best Buy sponsorship, and he remains with a still-thriving Roush. However, because of Joey Logano’s lack of results, he is fired in favor of Kyle Busch, who shuts down his Cup team. Tony Stewart is injured in a sprint car crash in August, and Austin Dillon takes over his ride for the remainder of 2013. Logano moves over to Penske for 2013, driving the #2 car. Penske never leaves Dodge, because there are still multiple Dodge teams (Petty, Ganassi & Evernham) having success. Sam Hornish is brought back to Cup, driving the #02 car, this time with Monster Energy sponsorship. Spingate never happens, so Clint Bowyer remains with MWR. However, after the struggles of 42-year-old David Reutimann, he is replaced by Jeb Burton in the #00 Aaron’s Chevrolet. Regan Smith remains with Furniture Row. A.J. Allmendinger gets a full-time ride with Phoenix Racing, which sells to Harry Scott near the end of the season. Landon Cassill replaces Bobby Labonte at JTG in the middle of the year. JTG replaces KBM as a Toyota satellite. Mark Martin wins at Michigan in August, and becomes the oldest Cup winner ever at age 53. Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. moves to Cup in the #6 for Roush, winning rookie of the year. David Ragan moves to Hendrick, sharing the #25 car with Mark Martin. Stenhouse beats out his girlfriend, Danica Patrick, for the ROTY battle. She drives the #10 Chevrolet for Stewart-Ginn Racing. David Stremme replaces Scott Riggs in the Haas #66. Jimmie Johnson defeats Dale Earnhardt, Jr. in a close championship battle.
2014: Kevin Harvick remains in the RCR #30 car. Austin Dillon takes over the #3 car from Jeff Burton, who moves to Furniture Row Racing. Regan Smith moves to Front Row Motorsports. Joe Gibbs Racing opens a fourth team for development driver Parker Kligerman, the #77 car. Kyle Larson wins rookie of the year in the #42 Texaco Dodge for Chip Ganassi Racing, as Juan Pablo Montoya jumps to Stewart-Ginn Racing, driving the #4 Chevrolet. Casey Mears is replaced by Michael Annett in the #43. Kevin Harvick, Jeff Gordon, Brad Keselowski & Dale Earnhardt, Jr. fight for the championship, and Earnhardt comes out on top, winning for the third time in his career.
2015: Offseason health issues sideline Brian Vickers once again, and he is replaced at ARBR by David Ragan. Mark Martin remains one more year as a part-time driver with Hendrick, this time pairing up with 2014 Xfinity champion Chase Elliott as his co-driver. Jeff Burton announces that 2015 will be his final Cup season, but he has a career resurgence with new crew chief Cole Pearn. Furniture Row has a Hendrick alliance starting in 2015. Michael McDowell is replaced at MWR by rookie Brett Moffitt. McDowell replaces Whitt at Bill Davis Racing. Whitt joins Front Row Motorsports. RAB Racing moves to Cup with James Buescher in the #09 car. Ryan Blaney takes over the 02 car from Sam Hornish, Jr., and wins ROTY. Kevin Harvick wins his second championship after a dominant season.
2016: Because Rob Kauffman never becomes involved in NASCAR, there is no charter agreement. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. suffers concussion issues at the mid-point of the year, and is replaced in the 8 car by Jeff Burton, who returns from a short retirement. HScott Motorsports shuts down before the season, so A.J. Allmendinger goes to JTG Daugherty Racing. Landon Cassill moves over to Furniture Row, where he has a great season with Cole Pearn as crew chief. Chase Elliott moves to Cup, replacing Mark Martin in the #25 car with McDonald’s sponsorship. Brian Scott replaces Paul Menard in the #31. Menard’s father brings Team Menard to NASCAR for his son. Brad Keselowski wins the title after a battle with Kevin Harvick at the end of the season, his second Cup championship.
2017: NASCAR increases field size to 50 cars, and adds more pit stalls at some tracks. Dale, Jr. returns from health issues, but announces 2017 will be his final season. DEI prospect William Byron will replace him in the #8 for 2018. Greg Biffle retires from Roush Racing, and is replaced by 2015 Xfinity champion Chris Buescher. Richard Petty hires Bubba Wallace to replace Michael Annett in his #43 car, and Annett replaces David Gilliland at Yates. Brian Scott takes the #19 from Marcos Ambrose, and is replaced at RCR by rookie Ty Dillon. Gibbs prospect Erik Jones replaces Parker Kligerman in the #77 car, and Kligerman moves over to Hendrick, taking David Ragan’s spot in the #5. Jones wins rookie of the year. Ragan joins JTG Daugherty Racing in their 2nd car, the #37. Ragan is replaced by Marco Andretti, who moves over to NASCAR after suffering through many bad seasons in IndyCar. He flops here, too. Gray Gaulding replaces Stremme in the #66 car. The championship goes to Martin Truex, Jr., finally capturing his first Cup championship. Dale, Jr. retires with 50 career wins.
2018: William Byron takes over the 8 car, but struggles in his rookie season. Juan Pablo Montoya is replaced in the #4 car by John Hunter Nemechek. Ross Chastian moves to Haas, taking over the #66. Byron beats them both for ROTY. Kyle Busch finally wins his first Cup championship in the Gibbs #20 car.
Here’s what the full-time team chart would look like in 2018, along with each driver’s career win total:
#00: Jeb Burton, Aaron’s Chevrolet, Michael Waltrip Racing (0 wins)
#1: Aric Almirola, Budweiser Chevrolet, Dale Earnhardt, Inc. (15 wins)
#2: Joey Logano, Miller Lite Dodge, Team Penske (15 wins)
#02: Ryan Blaney, Monster Energy Dodge, Team Penske (4 wins)
#3: Austin Dillon, GM Certified Service Chevrolet, Richard Childress Racing (4 wins)
#4: John Hunter Nemechek (R), National Guard Chevrolet, Stewart-Ginn Racing (0 wins)
#5: Parker Kligerman, Valvoline Chevrolet, Hendrick Motorsports (4 wins)
#6: Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., AAA Ford, Roush Racing (5 wins)
#8: William Byron (R), Liberty University Chevrolet, Dale Earnhardt, Inc. (0 wins)
#9: Kasey Kahne, Mountain Dew Dodge, Evernham Motorsports (28 wins)
#09: James Buescher, Rheem Toyota, RAB Racing (0 wins)
#10: Danica Patrick, GoDaddy Chevrolet, Stewart-Ginn Racing (0 wins)
#11: Denny Hamlin, FedEx Toyota, Joe Gibbs Racing (26 wins)
#12: Justin Allgaier, Verizon Dodge, Team Penske (4 wins)
#13: Paul Menard, Menards Chevrolet, Team Menard (1 win)
#14: Tony Stewart, Office Depot Chevrolet, Stewart-Ginn Racing (50 wins)
#15: Martin Truex, Jr., Bass Pro Shops Chevrolet, Dale Earnhardt, Inc. (33 wins)
#16: Chris Buescher, National Guard Ford, Roush Racing (2 wins)
#17: Matt Kenseth, Best Buy Ford, Roush Racing (35 wins)
#18: Matt DiBenedetto, Interstate Batteries Toyota, Joe Gibbs Racing (12 wins)
#19: Brian Scott, Albertson’s Dodge, Evernham Motorsports (0 wins)
#20: Kyle Busch, The Home Depot Toyota, Joe Gibbs Racing (35 wins)
#21: Trevor Bayne, Motorcraft Ford, Wood Brothers Racing (1 win)
#22: Michael McDowell, Caterpillar Toyota, Bill Davis Racing (0 wins)
#24: Jeff Gordon, Axalta Chevrolet, Hendrick Motorsports (97 wins)
#25: Chase Elliott, McDonald’s Chevrolet, Hendrick Motorsports (3 wins)
#27: Marco Andretti, Red Bull Toyota, Andretti Red Bull Racing (0 wins)
#28: Kurt Busch, Red Bull Toyota, Andretti Red Bull Racing (29 wins)
#30: Kevin Harvick, Jimmy John’s Chevrolet, Richard Childress Racing (53 wins)
#31: Ty Dillon, Pennzoil Chevrolet, Richard Childress Racing (0 wins)
#34: Regan Smith, Love’s Travel Stops Ford, Front Row Motorsports (3 wins)
#35: Josh Wise, Morristown Drivers Service Ford, Front Row Motorsports (0 wins)
#37: David Ragan, Kroger Toyota, JTG Daugherty Racing (3 wins)
#38: Michael Annett, Pilot Ford, Yates Racing (0 wins)
#39: Ryan Newman, U.S. Army Chevrolet, Stewart-Ginn Racing (21 wins)
#41: Reed Sorenson, Target Dodge, Chip Ganassi Racing (7 wins)
#42: Kyle Larson, Texaco Dodge, Chip Ganassi Racing (5 wins)
#43: Bubba Wallace, Wells Fargo Dodge, Petty Enterprises (0 wins)
#44: Brett Moffitt, UPS Chevrolet, Michael Waltrip Racing (1 win)
#45: Jamie McMurray, Cessna Dodge, Petty Enterprises (5 wins)
#47: A.J. Allmendinger, Kroger Toyota, JTG Daugherty Racing (2 wins)
#48: Jimmie Johnson, Lowe’s Chevrolet, Hendrick Motorsports (65 wins)
#51: Clint Bowyer, 5-hour Energy Chevrolet, Michael Waltrip Racing (14 wins)
#55: Ryan Truex, NAPA Auto Parts Chevrolet, Michael Waltrip Racing (3 wins)
#66: Ross Chastain (R), State Water Heaters Chevrolet, Haas CNC Racing (0 wins)
#70: Johnny Sauter, Haas Automation Chevrolet, Haas CNC Racing (0 wins)
#77: Erik Jones, Dollar General Toyota, Joe Gibbs Racing (2 wins)
#78: Landon Cassill, Furniture Row Chevrolet, Furniture Row Racing (8 wins)
#81: Brad Keselowski, Discount Tire Chevrolet, Dale Earnhardt, Inc. (27 wins)
#88: Stephen Leicht, Snickers Ford, Yates Racing (1 win)
#92: Cole Whitt, Camping World Ford, Front Row Motorsports (0 wins)
#99: Carl Edwards, Aflac Ford, Roush Racing (30 wins)
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sean
Assistant Moderator
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Post by sean on Oct 24, 2018 18:12:07 GMT -5
If Gibbs fired Kyle Busch, he'd have kept Joey Logano longer. I think that likely would have changed a lot. I'm not sure if Logano would have suddenly improved as he did at Penske, but that's certainly a possibility and that could have kept the team stronger than you are thinking.
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Post by chevyfan98 on Oct 24, 2018 18:21:35 GMT -5
I'm not seeing any correlation with a lot of those... like how does Earnhardt still being alive affect the 2003 title race if he's not a part of it (and there would be a Chase at some point, because Nextel/Sprint wanted it and not every year would've been a great championship battle), and how do some of those sponsorships come together, like Monster Energy with Penske or National Guard sponsoring both Roush and Stewart's team... and how on Earth is Johnny Sauter still in the #70 for over a decade with no wins? Also I sadly don't think just Adam Petty and Jim Roper would've been enough for NASCAR to make so many safety innovations, another big name would've had to die instead of Earnhardt if that's the direction you're going in, and even that might not be enough. I agree that NASCAR would be more popular but probably not enough to save a lot of those teams (especially the ones that did it to themselves, like Evernham or Ginn... DEI is probably still around and thriving though).
But yeah other than just those few nitpicks I thought this was interesting to read and agree with a lot of it. Junior would've obviously been better and stayed with DEI his whole career (assuming DEI becomes and stays an elite team), and there are probably a lot more competitive cars on the grid. And lol at Marco never winning... he really probably would've been the male Danica if he'd come to NASCAR, especially if he's driving for his family team.
I think I'll present my own version of this for next week, assuming I have enough time (have a few papers for school I need to work on too).
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Post by JSPorts on Oct 24, 2018 18:34:24 GMT -5
I'm not seeing any correlation with a lot of those... like how does Earnhardt still being alive affect the 2003 title race if he's not a part of it (and there would be a Chase at some point, because Nextel/Sprint wanted it and not every year would've been a great championship battle), and how do some of those sponsorships come together, like Monster Energy with Penske or National Guard sponsoring both Roush and Stewart's team... and how on Earth is Johnny Sauter still in the #70 for over a decade with no wins? Also I sadly don't think just Adam Petty and Jim Roper would've been enough for NASCAR to make so many safety innovations, another big name would've had to die instead of Earnhardt if that's the direction you're going in, and even that might not be enough. I agree that NASCAR would be more popular but probably not enough to save a lot of those teams (especially the ones that did it to themselves, like Evernham or Ginn... DEI is probably still around and thriving though). But yeah other than just those few nitpicks I thought this was interesting to read and agree with a lot of it. Junior would've obviously been better and stayed with DEI his whole career (assuming DEI becomes and stays an elite team), and there are probably a lot more competitive cars on the grid. And lol at Marco never winning... he really probably would've been the male Danica if he'd come to NASCAR, especially if he's driving for his family team. I think I'll present my own version of this for next week, assuming I have enough time (have a few papers for school I need to work on too). Earnhardt still being alive affects the 2003 title race because DEI is a stronger team with his leadership rather than Teresa's, so Dale Jr. runs better. I just tried to think back for some of the sponsors. I thought Monster worked well with Penske since they did actually sponsor Hornish in Xfinity when he drove for KBM, and if Busch's team moved to Cup and then shut down, they'd need somewhere to go. At the time, Hornish was considered a potential Cup driver, but he didn't have a sponsor, so I put them together. With National Guard, I honestly have no clue, but the point there is I don't think military sponsors would've withdrawn from the sport like they did if it was thriving. I thought Johnny in the 70 made sense because he's doing well now in trucks, and I think he could've established a foothold with a Cup team. Maybe he would win a few races, especially if HMS game Haas more support. With the safety stuff, it obviously wasn't enough, but the only way Earnhardt doesn't die in that crash is if there are already safety precautions like that in place. Let's say Petty was a big enough name, because he was Richard's grandson. Evernham would've been fine with outside sponsorship, which they get in the form of Mountain Dew when Jr. stays at HMS and all of Sadler's sponsors. As for Ginn, they only had to survive a year and a half longer than they actually did, which I think could've happened if the sport had been healthier at the time. A lot of that stuff becomes pure guesswork down the road a ways, and it's not necessarily Dale surviving that is the direct catalyst of it all. But the three biggest things that hurt the sport, in my opinion, were the Chase, the COT and the charter system. The Chase wouldn't be there if there were competitive championship battles, which I think you'd get most years, especially 2003, if Earnhardt is still leading his team. RCR would also still be a top team, because Harvick would be there and Earnhardt & Childress would work together. So that inserts 7 new competitive cars eventually into the field. The COT was almost a direct byproduct of Earnhardt's death, so if he didn't die, that car doesn't come about (and neither does the Gen-6.) If Waltrip's team was supported by Earnhardt and was a Chevy team, it would be more successful off the bat, so he wouldn't be cash-starved from all the early-season DNQs and need to bring in Kauffman. No Kauffman, no RTA (at least not in this form with this power), no charters. |
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